HomeVoicesWill Churches Be Forced To Marry Same-Sex Couples?
Comments
(19)
Mother Rebecca
You are absolutely correct. You are absolutely correct. As a Episcopal priest I can refuse to marry any couple. There is no law that says I have to bless any couple’s marriage. Blessings on your marriage and I am hoping and praying that some day soon you will have equal protection and opportunity under the law.
Forcing Pastor of all the Forcing Pastor of all the Churches to marry gay couples is a violation of the first amendment “The First Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion”
Rick Nevsimal
The concern is the law will The concern is the law will change and any organization refusing to preform gay marriage will be charged with a crime of discrimination. It is one thing to say you don’t have to marry a couple who isn’t ready. It’s another for a church to challenge a law against discrimination based on sexual orientation. That would cause a major showdown.
Chris
It won’t be a problem. It won’t be a problem.
Racist churches can’t be sued for refusing to marry interracial couples (and yes, there are still some churches, primarily southern, which refuse to officiate interracial marriages); marriage equality for gays won’t be any different.
Darrell
I think you are way out there I think you are way out there if you do not believe in the possibility of church’s being forced. It is going to end up as the same thing as I can hire or not hire anyone I want. Unless they think they can sue me to get hired or what they want. Not to mention countries that passed laws recognizing gay marriage prior to America have started passing laws forcing churches to perform the ceremonies. But I am sure that is just other countries.
Mark
Where was this guy when the Where was this guy when the government took prayer out of school and the work place and most public places where it can be views as annoying or infringing on the rights of others to worship or pray. The government can do what the want, they are the government. Where were you when blacks were not allowed to drink out of public water fountains and facilities and other races were not prosecuted for killing them because it was right in the eyes of the law. You are too out of touch, just because you accept it, and you perform these ceremonies, don’t tell others they are not threatened. Where have you been over the last 50 years. On another note…no shoes, no shirts, no service, remember when you didn’t have to have on shoes to get service, I know that’s funny but what if you don’t own shoes. Seriously though if the government said that we as Pastors have to (and yes I am) move to the back of the bus (perform same sex marriage) and that they will enforce it, then believe you me, they will expect us to with consequences. .
Chuck Kaplan
If you think that the If you think that the government cannot step in read this:
The DOMA decision makes clear that marriage is a state-to-state issue, meaning that religious institutions that receive non-profit status on the federal level but do not perform or accept same-sex marriages in states where it is legal could have non-profit status revoked. Furthermore, should the IRS move to revoke federal non-profit status for churches, synagogues and mosques that do not perform same-sex marriage more generally, the Court could easily justify that decision on the basis of “eradicating discrimination” in religious education.
In 1983, the Supreme Court ruled in Bob Jones University v. United States that it was within the scope of the First Amendment’s protections for religion for the IRS to revoke the tax exempt status for the university based on its policy prohibiting interracial dating. The Court determined that the “Government has a fundamental, overriding interest in eradicating racial discrimination in education … which substantially outweighs whatever burden denial of tax benefits places on [the university’s] exercise of their religious beliefs.”
The Supreme Court is clearly leaning toward a similar move here. The Court stated in Romer v. Evans (1996) that states could not take measures to prevent future distinction of gays and lesbians as a protected class under state law; in Lawrence v. Texas (2003) the Court ruled that same-sex sexual activity was Constitutionally protected; in the DOMA case on Wednesday, the Court ruled that DOMA was unconstitutional not merely on federalism grounds, but because it violated the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment and the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment.
On the state level, a movement is already under way to revoke non-profit status for religious organizations that do not abide by the same-sex marriage. In Massachusetts in 2006, Boston Catholic Charities withdrew from adoption services thanks to the state mandate on same-sex adoptions, rather than fight the issue in court. In California, a bill is already making its way through the legislature to bar non-profit status for any religious youth group that discriminates on the basis of “gender identity, race, sexual orientation, nationality, religion, or religious affiliation.”
SJ Christian
Why is it that everyone Why is it that everyone always wants to compare “gay rights” to past civil rights. They have nothing in common. No ones saying gays can’t drink out of the same water fountains as others, theres not a mass lynching in the US of gays and gays aren’t being denied an education, so please stop people. It is very offensive. Come up with your own argument please.
forthepeople
I would strongly respect any I would strongly respect any institution with the strength and constitution to stand on topics our politicians have weakly folded to for votes. Our countrys main overall failing is overacceptance. There are incidents of children feeling uncomfortable as a boy and parents actually consider sex changes. Large topics should not be a politicians vote, but the peoples vote.
In line with the declaration In line with the declaration given from the High Commission in Georgetown, Tobias
Ellwood, Foreign Office Minister, is asking for that resumption of Parliament” as expected by the Earth Rent and Guyanais Constitution. The main realistic energy will be the range of the Member of Parliament to form a government, but usually the monarch uses the convention that this option is granted with the most chairs in the Home of Commons for the head of the political party.
This can be due to the fact in the Commons there is a strong ‘cooking’ program where political parties notify their members how-to vote on every considerable department although a weekly group of instructions.
Nevertheless, in the two’s remaining week – referendum strategy, the three major functions in the united kingdom Parliament decided that, in the event the Scots elected ‘no’, there will be an early transport of considerable additional forces to the Scottish Parliament.
Diomasach
And yet here we are, despite And yet here we are, despite all the blatantly false promises to the contrary, using the power of government to force people to completion and celebrate same sex marriages or be punished. Don’t want to participate in a same sex marriage as a photographer or a baker or caterer? Too bad, the government will crush your business.
Don’t want to perform a wedding because you’re a Christian Minister? Too bad, the government will force you to.
Just as the ministers in Idaho being threatened with arrest and fines for refusing to marry a gay couple.
So far I haven’t heard anyone So far I haven’t heard anyone saying anything about Muslim imams refusing to maryy same-sex couples. All of the rhetoric seems to aimed at “churches.” This sounds more and more like a blatant attack against Christianity, an attempt to “gag” Christians, but not necessarily anyone else. If this bevcomes the law of the land (same-sex marriage), it will not only affect the Christian Church, but Islamic mosques as well. It would have to, under the law. The government can’t enact a law that restricts or regulates the activity of only a select group of people. It will have to enforce it for all religions. And I would hate to think of what would happen if the government started throwing Muslims in jail and fining their mosques. It could have world-wide repercussions! Bloody repercussions! Also, there are plenty of judges and justices of the peace in this country who are ready and willing to marry gay couples. Why do gay couples have to single out Christian churches? By doing so, they are showing their true colors. They are showing that their real agenda is not equality under the law, but the shutting down and silencing of the Christian church. If the government cannot see this, then (as so many of us already believe), our government is blind and ignornat. And those who support such a blatantly self-serving law are just as blind and ignorant.
Roy Lauramore
I am a Minister of over 33 I am a Minister of over 33 years and I have never once had any problem marrying any interracial couple AS LONG AS they are man n woman,,, I also do not know one minister who has refused to marry ANY interracial couple,,,, BUT I have reused Gay couples and will continue to even if I am sued because it is 100% against the world of God….. It really doesn’t matter how you spin it, it is wrong…. I am from the south and I have a black sister and Love her and all black people so most of us hear in the south are not racist as we are made out to be by the wonderful Northern clans.
As a minister I say no to a As a minister I say no to a gay marriage then the government comes down on me about discrimination, but my religion says no to gay marriage, I am given a choice marry the gay couple or go to jail. Where does the First Amendment come in here on Freedom of Religions.? I am exercising my First Amendment right on freedom of religion. The government shall make no laws against religion, but they just did forcing us to give up our First Amendment right.
Pastor can only marry people when they obtain a license from their State government. I will return my license to the State and continue being a Pastor and when A gay couple wants me to marry them I will say no and if they threaten me I will say I can’t I don’t have a license to marry you so I can’t.
bert swain
god will destroy us. look god will destroy us. look what happened to sodum and gomorria. god will do the same. church or no church.
Mischell Winn
No the SCOTA ruling left in a No the SCOTA ruling left in a clause that allows churches and priest,pastors sct of PRIVATE churches the right to refuse on religious grounds,Public does not have that option but private and individuals do have that right, it was a compramise between religious freedom and the right to marry.
Suing someone or a church just because they refuse i personally think is just stupid, It IS the very same when we tell them to not stuff their religion down our throats, we cannot turn around on the same coin and force them to do what they obviously will not willingly do.Nor can we stuff our lifestyle down anyone elses throats and not expect a backlash no matter how idiotic the backlash is.
Let them have their moment, they will be forced in the end to confront the truth of things rather they like it or not.
fairdove
There is Gods Law and the There is Gods Law and the Government Law.
When the government chooses to push Gods Law aside by making its own rules – we as Christians must follow Gods Law. You say gay rights! We say Christian rights!
You have no right to come into the house of God and ask
His blessings on what he clearly states we should not do.
Go to the government and let them perform the ceremony as they approved it. But let us Christians have our freedom also..
Joshua Makar
To anyone who fears that the To anyone who fears that the government is going to force you to marry couples you do not condone, you are paranoid. First, a gay coupe is not going to seek out an officiant who opposes their union, so you’re good. Second, if for some crazy reason the government decides they will force you to marry people you do not condone, I –a person who supports equallity– and anyone who believes in equallity will fight for ‘your’ right to refuse to marry anyone you do not choose. It is neither the government’s, nor the religious organizations place to restrict anothers actions or personal choices which have no direct effect on others. You should only love and show compassion and trust that your God knows what they are doing.
Comments (19)
Mother Rebecca
You are absolutely correct.
You are absolutely correct. As a Episcopal priest I can refuse to marry any couple. There is no law that says I have to bless any couple’s marriage. Blessings on your marriage and I am hoping and praying that some day soon you will have equal protection and opportunity under the law.
Re. John
Forcing Pastor of all the
Forcing Pastor of all the Churches to marry gay couples is a violation of the first amendment “The First Amendment to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion”
Rick Nevsimal
The concern is the law will
The concern is the law will change and any organization refusing to preform gay marriage will be charged with a crime of discrimination. It is one thing to say you don’t have to marry a couple who isn’t ready. It’s another for a church to challenge a law against discrimination based on sexual orientation. That would cause a major showdown.
Chris
It won’t be a problem.
It won’t be a problem.
Racist churches can’t be sued for refusing to marry interracial couples (and yes, there are still some churches, primarily southern, which refuse to officiate interracial marriages); marriage equality for gays won’t be any different.
Darrell
I think you are way out there
I think you are way out there if you do not believe in the possibility of church’s being forced. It is going to end up as the same thing as I can hire or not hire anyone I want. Unless they think they can sue me to get hired or what they want. Not to mention countries that passed laws recognizing gay marriage prior to America have started passing laws forcing churches to perform the ceremonies. But I am sure that is just other countries.
Mark
Where was this guy when the
Where was this guy when the government took prayer out of school and the work place and most public places where it can be views as annoying or infringing on the rights of others to worship or pray. The government can do what the want, they are the government. Where were you when blacks were not allowed to drink out of public water fountains and facilities and other races were not prosecuted for killing them because it was right in the eyes of the law. You are too out of touch, just because you accept it, and you perform these ceremonies, don’t tell others they are not threatened. Where have you been over the last 50 years. On another note…no shoes, no shirts, no service, remember when you didn’t have to have on shoes to get service, I know that’s funny but what if you don’t own shoes. Seriously though if the government said that we as Pastors have to (and yes I am) move to the back of the bus (perform same sex marriage) and that they will enforce it, then believe you me, they will expect us to with consequences. .
Chuck Kaplan
If you think that the
If you think that the government cannot step in read this:
The DOMA decision makes clear that marriage is a state-to-state issue, meaning that religious institutions that receive non-profit status on the federal level but do not perform or accept same-sex marriages in states where it is legal could have non-profit status revoked. Furthermore, should the IRS move to revoke federal non-profit status for churches, synagogues and mosques that do not perform same-sex marriage more generally, the Court could easily justify that decision on the basis of “eradicating discrimination” in religious education.
In 1983, the Supreme Court ruled in Bob Jones University v. United States that it was within the scope of the First Amendment’s protections for religion for the IRS to revoke the tax exempt status for the university based on its policy prohibiting interracial dating. The Court determined that the “Government has a fundamental, overriding interest in eradicating racial discrimination in education … which substantially outweighs whatever burden denial of tax benefits places on [the university’s] exercise of their religious beliefs.”
The Supreme Court is clearly leaning toward a similar move here. The Court stated in Romer v. Evans (1996) that states could not take measures to prevent future distinction of gays and lesbians as a protected class under state law; in Lawrence v. Texas (2003) the Court ruled that same-sex sexual activity was Constitutionally protected; in the DOMA case on Wednesday, the Court ruled that DOMA was unconstitutional not merely on federalism grounds, but because it violated the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment and the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment.
On the state level, a movement is already under way to revoke non-profit status for religious organizations that do not abide by the same-sex marriage. In Massachusetts in 2006, Boston Catholic Charities withdrew from adoption services thanks to the state mandate on same-sex adoptions, rather than fight the issue in court. In California, a bill is already making its way through the legislature to bar non-profit status for any religious youth group that discriminates on the basis of “gender identity, race, sexual orientation, nationality, religion, or religious affiliation.”
SJ Christian
Why is it that everyone
Why is it that everyone always wants to compare “gay rights” to past civil rights. They have nothing in common. No ones saying gays can’t drink out of the same water fountains as others, theres not a mass lynching in the US of gays and gays aren’t being denied an education, so please stop people. It is very offensive. Come up with your own argument please.
forthepeople
I would strongly respect any
I would strongly respect any institution with the strength and constitution to stand on topics our politicians have weakly folded to for votes. Our countrys main overall failing is overacceptance. There are incidents of children feeling uncomfortable as a boy and parents actually consider sex changes. Large topics should not be a politicians vote, but the peoples vote.
http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2014/07/mike-
In line with the declaration
In line with the declaration given from the High Commission in Georgetown, Tobias
Ellwood, Foreign Office Minister, is asking for that resumption of Parliament” as expected by the Earth Rent and Guyanais Constitution. The main realistic energy will be the range of the Member of Parliament to form a government, but usually the monarch uses the convention that this option is granted with the most chairs in the Home of Commons for the head of the political party.
This can be due to the fact in the Commons there is a strong ‘cooking’ program where political parties notify their members how-to vote on every considerable department although a weekly group of instructions.
Historically many British authorities have been composed of ministers from a single political party which had a standard majority of seats Inside Your http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2014/07/mike-weatherley-mp-and-james-clappison-mp-to-stand-down-in-2015.html Home of Commons along with the ‘first-past-the-article’ (FPTP) electoral method considerably helps and even promotes this outcome.
Nevertheless, in the two’s remaining week – referendum strategy, the three major functions in the united kingdom Parliament decided that, in the event the Scots elected ‘no’, there will be an early transport of considerable additional forces to the Scottish Parliament.
Diomasach
And yet here we are, despite
And yet here we are, despite all the blatantly false promises to the contrary, using the power of government to force people to completion and celebrate same sex marriages or be punished. Don’t want to participate in a same sex marriage as a photographer or a baker or caterer? Too bad, the government will crush your business.
Don’t want to perform a wedding because you’re a Christian Minister? Too bad, the government will force you to.
Just as the ministers in Idaho being threatened with arrest and fines for refusing to marry a gay couple.
TheKnowerseeker
And yet, just four months
And yet, just four months later: http://www.christianpost.com/news/church-of-england-to-be-sued-for-refusing-to-perform-same-sex-marriages-just-a-month-after-prime-minister-promised-protection-101487/
SeedsofEarth
So far I haven’t heard anyone
So far I haven’t heard anyone saying anything about Muslim imams refusing to maryy same-sex couples. All of the rhetoric seems to aimed at “churches.” This sounds more and more like a blatant attack against Christianity, an attempt to “gag” Christians, but not necessarily anyone else. If this bevcomes the law of the land (same-sex marriage), it will not only affect the Christian Church, but Islamic mosques as well. It would have to, under the law. The government can’t enact a law that restricts or regulates the activity of only a select group of people. It will have to enforce it for all religions. And I would hate to think of what would happen if the government started throwing Muslims in jail and fining their mosques. It could have world-wide repercussions! Bloody repercussions! Also, there are plenty of judges and justices of the peace in this country who are ready and willing to marry gay couples. Why do gay couples have to single out Christian churches? By doing so, they are showing their true colors. They are showing that their real agenda is not equality under the law, but the shutting down and silencing of the Christian church. If the government cannot see this, then (as so many of us already believe), our government is blind and ignornat. And those who support such a blatantly self-serving law are just as blind and ignorant.
Roy Lauramore
I am a Minister of over 33
I am a Minister of over 33 years and I have never once had any problem marrying any interracial couple AS LONG AS they are man n woman,,, I also do not know one minister who has refused to marry ANY interracial couple,,,, BUT I have reused Gay couples and will continue to even if I am sued because it is 100% against the world of God….. It really doesn’t matter how you spin it, it is wrong…. I am from the south and I have a black sister and Love her and all black people so most of us hear in the south are not racist as we are made out to be by the wonderful Northern clans.
Rev. John
As a minister I say no to a
As a minister I say no to a gay marriage then the government comes down on me about discrimination, but my religion says no to gay marriage, I am given a choice marry the gay couple or go to jail. Where does the First Amendment come in here on Freedom of Religions.? I am exercising my First Amendment right on freedom of religion. The government shall make no laws against religion, but they just did forcing us to give up our First Amendment right.
Pastor can only marry people when they obtain a license from their State government. I will return my license to the State and continue being a Pastor and when A gay couple wants me to marry them I will say no and if they threaten me I will say I can’t I don’t have a license to marry you so I can’t.
bert swain
god will destroy us. look
god will destroy us. look what happened to sodum and gomorria. god will do the same. church or no church.
Mischell Winn
No the SCOTA ruling left in a
No the SCOTA ruling left in a clause that allows churches and priest,pastors sct of PRIVATE churches the right to refuse on religious grounds,Public does not have that option but private and individuals do have that right, it was a compramise between religious freedom and the right to marry.
Suing someone or a church just because they refuse i personally think is just stupid, It IS the very same when we tell them to not stuff their religion down our throats, we cannot turn around on the same coin and force them to do what they obviously will not willingly do.Nor can we stuff our lifestyle down anyone elses throats and not expect a backlash no matter how idiotic the backlash is.
Let them have their moment, they will be forced in the end to confront the truth of things rather they like it or not.
fairdove
There is Gods Law and the
There is Gods Law and the Government Law.
When the government chooses to push Gods Law aside by making its own rules – we as Christians must follow Gods Law. You say gay rights! We say Christian rights!
You have no right to come into the house of God and ask
His blessings on what he clearly states we should not do.
Go to the government and let them perform the ceremony as they approved it. But let us Christians have our freedom also..
Joshua Makar
To anyone who fears that the
To anyone who fears that the government is going to force you to marry couples you do not condone, you are paranoid. First, a gay coupe is not going to seek out an officiant who opposes their union, so you’re good. Second, if for some crazy reason the government decides they will force you to marry people you do not condone, I –a person who supports equallity– and anyone who believes in equallity will fight for ‘your’ right to refuse to marry anyone you do not choose. It is neither the government’s, nor the religious organizations place to restrict anothers actions or personal choices which have no direct effect on others. You should only love and show compassion and trust that your God knows what they are doing.
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